What would you do if you couldn't read the instructions on your medicine bottles? This is the reality for approximately 36 million people in the United States who are unable to read at a proficiency level to perform everyday tasks. This has profound ramifications on every facet of their lives and makes them potential targets for those who would take advantage of them. How does what Dr. Macleay Campbell calls "an invisible population" add to the collective trauma of our nation? What, if anything, can be done to help bring adult literacy into the light? Join Dr. Macleay Campbell (@CMCampbellGA) as we discuss this important topic.
What would you do if you couldn't read the instructions on your medicine bottles? This is the reality for approximately 36 million people in the United States who are unable to read at a proficiency level to perform everyday tasks. This has profound ramifications on every facet of their lives and makes them potential targets for those who would take advantage of them. How does what Dr. Macleay Campbell calls "an invisible population" add to the collective trauma of our nation? What, if anything, can be done to help bring adult literacy into the light? Join Dr. Macleay Campbell (@CMCampbellGA) as we discuss this important topic.
spk_0: 0:00
and now stay tuned for another episode of the traumatic states of America. Welcome to the traumatic states of America. Our main goal is to begin to heal some of the trouble we have suffered, both individually and collectively. I am your host, Dr Lori Hood and I will be talking with people from all walks of life who has suffered trauma in its myriad forms. Military veterans, attorneys, first responders, football players, stay at home moms and many more. We will hear how trauma has not only affected them, but their families and communities as we take an in depth look at what science has to offer and what can be done to prevent, mitigate and help recover from trauma. I would like to welcome Cynthia McLeod Campbell, who is an education consultant. She specializes in plain language consulting, and she received her e. D. D. From Biola University. Welcome, Cynthia.
spk_1: 1:15
Thank you, Laurie. Glad to be here.
spk_0: 1:17
Nice to have you. So tell me a little bit more about playing plain language consulting.
spk_1: 1:23
Well, plain language is essentially communicating in ways that the audience can understand. Too often we see documents say, from our credit card companies or from legal documents that are just playing confusing. And it's confusing, not just for, uh, it's confusing for everyone, including people who are high level educated experts. But for the well, shall we say, the average person? It could be particularly daunting. And for people who have lower reading and writing skills in this country, which is about 36 million, it could be especially daunting.
spk_0: 2:06
36 million people. So how do so 36 million people have you said low level riding in literacy. So can you tell us quite low level writing? And literacy is kind to find that for us.
spk_1: 2:19
Well, it really means that they operate it less than 1/3 grade reading level. And much of the daily living requirements that we have to read and write are things that are not accessible to them. So, for example, if you hate need to read a medicine bottle, too, figure out what you're dosages. Want to take it well, that there are many people who cannot read that medicine bottles.
spk_0: 2:45
That's scary. That's really scary. So how do people get through our education system and without an education?
spk_1: 2:55
Well, there's There's two answers to that First of all, so many of the people that were serving our country have not been through our education system. Many of them are immigrants who, for whatever reason, had interrupted education in their home countries, so they may have never had any education. There's a high number of adults who come to this country with no reading skills whatsoever. There are people who had their education interrupted at the sixth grade level or the ninth grade level. Now in our country, there are a variety of reasons that people end up leaving school before finishing high school. One of them, sometimes it's undiagnosed learning differences. Sometimes it other issues that caused them to leave school, for example. They may feel like in ninth grade or so they have to take care of their family or get a job to help their families. So they get a job and then they find it very difficult to get back to school later.
spk_0: 3:57
Right? Right. Wow. So, um, as you know, this podcast is called the Traumatic States of America. And, um, at one point you and I had a conversation where you mentioned something to the effect that you know, You don't just teach ah content, you know, just hand content, you know, or give content to adults and they go off and learn it that often times I'm paraphrasing and correct me. If I'm wrong, you have to sort of undue the trauma that the second grade teacher did. Can you expound on that a little bit?
spk_1: 4:28
Yes, I am happy to. Unfortunately, in some cases people have had very traumatic experiences in schools that keep them from finishing school. It may have been an undiagnosed learning difference where they were berated for not keeping up with class or acting out. It could have been a situation where they had taken tests that did not understand how to take a test, because along with learning, knowing the content of what's going to be on a test, you need to know the rules. Take it so they made up knowing how to take a test or and been berated because I have done poorly on test, which only heightens the test anxiety. So you have that kind of trauma in some situations that I've heard people from certain urban areas tell me that their teachers have said something to them along the lines of I got mine. You go get yours and not really offer any substantial help or support as as their learning.
spk_0: 5:31
Yeah,
spk_1: 5:32
And then you have certain schools where people have had to encounter violence and what not so staying in the school just wasn't a safe thing for them. There's been schools in that category, so unfortunate. What happens with some students who don't learn to read at a taking up by third grade third grade is considered considered the turning point. Hopefully, you before third grade, you're learning to read by third grade. Hopefully, then you're able to read toe learn. Um, so some students who kind of scrape along into long get to ninth grade and when they're in ninth grade and they're reading several grade level, blow their peer and they get frustrated only and then they vote with their feet. They leave
spk_0: 6:23
right, right, embarrassed and peer pressure. Yeah, I understand. I understand. And, um, I also don't want to go. I asked the question, but how did this happen? And obviously there's many reasons, and they're probably or even more. But I also don't want Teoh dump it all on teachers because I think teachers have a really, really hard job. I'm not
spk_1: 6:44
exactly right. So there are a so even, Yeah, I mean, yes, you have some bad teachers, but it's not always isn't always bad teachers. It can be cleaned up bad situations. And and often I think they're teachers who work. There are systems that are overwhelmed with various needs.
spk_0: 7:05
Correct? Yeah, especially
spk_1: 7:06
today.
spk_0: 7:07
Exactly. I was just going to say, especially today. Do you think that teachers air traumatized?
spk_1: 7:13
Oh, yeah, I think there are teachers who have encountered trauma, especially as and then there's been some research that talks about the problem The teacher deal with was trying to address student trauma. Eventually, it's wearing on the teachers wears on the teachers, and often they don't get a lot of support. Sometimes the culture of education doesn't always blend self to that, because traditionally an education, everybody has their own class. They're supposed to be automatically its independence and able to handle everything, and it doesn't too often. Teaching environment may not doctor collaboration interdependent,
spk_0: 7:56
so the teachers aren't getting the support they need that they would get with collaboration. Exactly. Right, right. Yeah. So one of the things that, um um one of my companies does is it's called future safe. And the tagline is from mass trauma to collective feeling. And I have consulted with some school systems around the country there either their administration, their vice principals, principles, school counselors, psychologists, um, and their threat assessment team. And that, of course, is because we've had school shootings. And I wonder what your take is on the effect on students. Let's just say, for example, a school that has not had an incident. Um, but they're having drills. They're having, you know, having to go through locked down drills. Soft lock down, hard locked down, Run, hide, fight all of that stuff. What do you think or what? What has been your experience? I shouldn't say Think. What is your experience of? What do you know in the research? Um, the current research that it's happening to first students and then teachers.
spk_1: 9:03
Well, I think for all of us it introduces an element that we hadn't really dealt with before because it feels like this is a little more internal and personal, as opposed to an earthquake drill. Or maybe them the most analogous thing would be what people used to have with the they nuclear nuclear meltdown. Drills of the people from the sixties going
spk_0: 9:31
duck and come in, right? Yeah.
spk_1: 9:34
Second cover. Yes, exactly. But, you know, you know, going through thinking about how do we have to, you know, what would we do if we were to tap to deal with the shooter? And I think it would add to it, Is the hype around school shootings too? Because why we have school shootings, it is not it prevalent. We might think, by the way, they're covered in the media. So it's a real problem, but it is. But there's a certain amount of its been heightened as they a as a problem.
spk_0: 10:12
So
spk_1: 10:13
I think that so, the way things get depicted, you know, some level with the media in general, that heightened the fear factor, I think.
spk_0: 10:24
Yeah. Yeah. And I think also, um, you know, I find I have found different definitions of, you know, quote mass shooting or, um, you know, school shooting. And, uh, some of them have, you know, pretty hard bar. And so they have a very low bar. And so I think the statistics get a little bit massaged sometimes for whatever reason, but I agree. And I I worry. I mean, I really worry about how students I mean, when I went to school, school safe and it was always safe. And I worry about teachers and students and, um, that kind of trauma just, you know, knowing that it could happen at some point in time. And I don't know how we mitigate that.
spk_1: 11:07
Yeah, and I think that really some level, the more serious potential for trauma is actually bullying and cyber bulling. This is what kids have to face all the time. One of things that I think it's been a real improvement is acknowledging the effectively because that wasn't really acknowledged when we were growing up. It was something you if you are picked on it school and you just kind of had to deal with it.
spk_0: 11:37
Yeah,
spk_1: 11:38
well, I think it was something that we were just told to deal with, and we were just basically losers every year picked on in school. Now they're acknowledging that it did not. This should not be happening. It should not be tolerated.
spk_0: 11:51
Right? Right. Do you think bullying has gotten worse.
spk_1: 11:56
I think I don't know if it's gotten worse so much as it can. Ah, inlay the cyber aspect to it. It could go further a field. And I think that is true for all of us when they talked about shaming online. You know, in Twitter and things like that, they just get further field. So by express, Ah, political opinion on Facebook. I'm gonna have 30 people come after me, regardless of what side it. And that's that's not something. In the old days, before we had this kind of cyber connection, it would be a matter of okay, you said something at a party, you might have five people mad at you, but you did. It will face the face and you had a certain amount of social protocols that probably tampered it down. Unless there was alcohol involved or you were dealing with your uncle.
spk_0: 12:56
We'll have
spk_1: 12:56
the uncle
spk_0: 12:57
right, But the
spk_1: 13:02
uncle right,
spk_0: 13:03
But,
spk_1: 13:04
uh, here it's just like people in this. In a lot of discussion about that, people tend to feel uninhibited to do certain things in a cyber world of, say things in a certain way. In the cyber world, they wouldn't say face.
spk_0: 13:18
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I am. Had a principal tell me, um, about a year ago, that when Before you know of the technology that we have right now that kids would maybe have an issue at school. But they go home, and they'll be like a cooling off period, because there was a telephone and it was attached to the wall, you know, And, um but now they discontinues and And the kids who are getting bully, don't ever get a break. And, um so, yeah, I think it's I think it's really important, you know, back to adult education. Do you find that some of the the adults that you work with were bullied as kids?
spk_1: 13:57
That's an interesting question. I haven't never really explored it, but it would be an interesting question to to explore. I'm sure some of them have. Yeah, I'm sure if, um, but I don't know the exact that be an interesting question to explore.
spk_0: 14:16
Yeah,
spk_1: 14:18
certainly a number of our learners have built with certain health issues, including addiction. So it's very possible for whatever reason, they did say, pulling at school, that they may have also, they, uh domestic abuse,
spk_0: 14:35
right and and, you know, substance misuse and abuse often goes hand in hand with with trauma. I mean, it's it's almost a perfect one. Correlation when you get down to it, actually get the get the information in the data. Um, so, yeah, it's, um it's a tough problem. So if you could change one thing, um, for the education system or do one thing change One thing that would help people make it through school and, um, come out literate as adults are graduating from high school. What what would you do?
spk_1: 15:16
Does it? That's a fun question, I think the I think perhaps the best thing I can think of is kind of a principle that some people try to employ in in adult learning in terms of because there's often when adult learner comes through a door. It's not just education they need. It's often other things that are dated, maybe some some support to deal with. They're dealing with crisis of some sort, maybe brought on by poverty or other situations like addiction or health issues. So, looking at things as a holistic deal, we also employees what they call case managers to kind of help people look at, whether their needs and help them figure out how to get plugged into what can help with their needs. Um, if if we had that we had the capacity to have more of a case management approach, that would. And I think people are trying to do this. But I'm not trying to broke throw fireballs that the education system, but we had were casing medically approach where we we we assessed not only the needs of the student, but what assets they have the talent on all so too often and education if we can get into looking at deficit. But we should be looking at assets so the child who may not read will may have a natural natural bit for music or or of the child who can't do Mac well, may have a natural bent for writing. I mean, these are things, so we should be able to look at both the asset as well as the deficit thinking the assets. Moreover, more than the deficit, but addressing the important deficit summations you're people are you know people are able to read and write and do math at at the levels they need to do to have a functional emotional life, but also life where they could fully participate in our democracy.
spk_0: 17:39
Well said, Well said, Well, is there anything else that you'd like to add?
spk_1: 17:46
No, I think so. I mean, I think right now with Covert 19 we're all dealing with a certain amount of trauma. Um, for whatever reason, and I think we all just need to remember that each of us are doing our best and we may seem fine and one zoom meeting but it But later that evening, we could be having a meltdown. And that could be true for anyone of us and that we need to I think it be gentle, er with each other as a whole. Um, I also have been impressed with how much we have been able to do to live technology through this, uh, through this time. So even though you know I have the concerns about cyber bullying, we've also seen a lot in terms of like social media being supportive of each other in helping each other and with with zoom in social media or other other applications, like soon we've been able to do things to connect that wouldn't have been taught possible 10 years ago.
spk_0: 18:48
Yeah.
spk_1: 18:48
So, for example, yesterday was Easter Sunday. I wasn't able to go to church, but my husband and I were able to attend church, Um, through churches that we know, um, being being our pastor preach and and have the music and all that, and with a lot of Herculean efforts on their court to make these kind of things happen. We attended a zoo meeting with some friends of ours we normally gather with for Easter. So we had a little zoom it soon conference
spk_0: 19:20
that doesn't we take
spk_1: 19:21
the place of face of faith, but it does help a lot.
spk_0: 19:24
Yeah. Yeah, we're really fortunate this that's happened when it didn't happen of 15 years ago or something, because we'd be we'd be in trouble. I
spk_1: 19:31
would say I would say we almost have to assume trauma at this point with all of us. What I pointed out in plane, I did a little blawg plain language in the age of covert 19 which I put on linked in. But one of the things that we need to we need to assure one of things I point out of the bloggers we need to assure people that were on their side. When? When We're just giving out information here. Where the mask do the social distancing is sure people were on her side. We will get through this together, but also they need to have it be plainest possible is really important because people undergoing trauma are just not going to operate at their peak cognitive levels. Correcto. So while we normally would say shoot for 8 to 10th grade reading level and material, I would say, Shoot lower, lower, make it clear.
spk_0: 20:31
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. I mean, I'm totally with you, and I think we probably with the same research. But you know that when people are under high loveless stress, their creativity goes down there, you get almost, like tunnel vision, depending on how stressed they are. And, yeah, that's a really good point. So when we're trying to to send that information to write tryto, um, you know, make keep that in mind. Yeah, I think that's a really great suggestion. Really Great suggestion. Yeah. So I wanted to get your website for our listeners. Um And, um, the name of your business. If you could give that to me for to us. Yes,
spk_1: 21:07
My little business made myself and I ob called Gold Apple Services. And my website is W w w dot gold apple services dot com.
spk_0: 21:19
Got it. Gold Apple Services O teacher at full. I get it a couple minutes. It don't
spk_1: 21:28
look good for writing to so that the communication,
spk_0: 21:32
right? Exactly. Exactly. Well, Dr Campbell, thank you so much for being with us today. It was a really good, uh, information packed episode, and I hope people get a lot out of it. And, you know, I remember when when you brought this up to me, I hadn't thought about adult learners having had trauma and and, you know, But you've pointed out all the examples, and and I think people should keep that in mind, be gentle with each other. That's a really good message,
spk_1: 22:00
always. And thank you.
spk_0: 22:04
And that was Dr Cynthia McLay Campbell, who was a plain language consultant talking about the trauma that adult learners have faced and contained a face as well as teachers in our education system. If you'd like to learn more about what she does you can visit Gold Apple services dot com. Thank you for listening to the traumatic states of America. If you would like to learn more about Dr Lori Hood, go to Laurie Hood. Ph d dot com. The Traumatic States of America podcast is produced and engineered by Band I Love Productions at their studio in Washington, D. C.